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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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for the 17th of August 2014 Richard

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Saunders here with you from a very

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chilly colder Park Raceway and near

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Melbourne I've come down here to do some

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in-car video which I do from time to

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time and DVD production and I'm just

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sort of between my duties at the moment

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I'm up here in the control room which is

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heated I'm delighted to say looking down

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on the racetrack and there goes car 14

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screaming past but it is mighty cold

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here at called park well named part but

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you don't want to know about that you

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want to know what's coming up on the

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skeptic zone this week we're going to

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kick off with dr. Reggie reports the

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welcome return of dr. Reggie she a

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couple of weeks ago a couple of months

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ago was that skeptics in the pub in

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Sydney great old thing goes number six

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wow it's tearing home where she

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addressed the crowd told them all about

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the success of the facebook group

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stopped the avian stopped the Australian

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but vaccination network what an

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interesting talk it is and what a fine

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lesson in skeptical activism which

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really really has results I urge you to

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listen carefully dr. Richie reports

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coming up at the top of the show okay

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what's happening now car number eights

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coming in

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passenger gets up it's a oh wow car

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number nine screaming down the street

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today where people get to come in and

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race from Real Racing cuz why should I

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say they get to drive in them with an

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instructor to get a feeling what it's

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like to be in a real racing car and then

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they do hot laps with an instructor

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driving which is very thrilling indeed

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hmm well after dr. Reggie reports we

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have a week in science from the Royal

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Institution of Australia in the

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beautiful city of Adelaide and good on

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while they keep churning out a week in

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science well done Paul willison team

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well done indeed i'm judging by the

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letters I received a lot of people do

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enjoy that segment here comes car number

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55 to change passengers then we have a

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report about an article which appeared

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in the sunshine coast daily newspaper up

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in Queensland which tried to give

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balance to pro and anti immunization but

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failed spectacularly and you'll know why

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when we have the original article read

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out and will read out a typical reply

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sent by the editor of the magazine when

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skeptics voiced their our concern and

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finally we're going to have the open

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letter written by Ross pulse from

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Brisbane that was published I think

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published at least online maybe in print

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itself another good example of skeptical

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activism so I urge you to especially

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listen to the open letter at the end of

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the show now before we get stuck into

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the show a couple little messages and

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information don't forget to visit

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Maynard condotta you our report of

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maynards own website he has his own

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podcast called bunga bunga which is a

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lot of fun unga-bunga check it out at

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Manor com got a you and he does that

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with Tim Ferguson who is one of the

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members of the Doug Anthony all-stars

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Australians will know who i am talking

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about and also in the last week I was on

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a podcast skeptically challenged south

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you google sky

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ethically challenged podcast it's me

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having a talk about all the things I've

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been doing so the tables are turned and

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this time I get interviewed and I talked

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about the vaccination chronicles video

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and the Australian skeptics and what it

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was like to be on TV a couple years back

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and all sorts of things so you might

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find that interesting as now it's this

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car coming down the straight now here it

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comes screaming along it's car number 55

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there goes followed closely by car

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number 14

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well that's enough nail-biting

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excitement from for me up here in the

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control booth of the colder park raceway

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I'm going to venture outside try to at

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least it's pretty cold outside going to

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go down to the look hand team there

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maybe have a a chip or two maybe I

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should have an apple hmm well I'm doing

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now it's time for dr. Richie reports

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with dr. Rachel Dunlop okay so tonight

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we have dr. Rachel done lot will be

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talking about the SAV n which actually

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should now be the SAV sm right Severson

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we haven't we really don't bother going

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there far hyphenated but I've we wonder

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how much time they will have to actually

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get there sa vie avsm established rachel

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is a constant campaign a member of a

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stop the avian and I think she'll be

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talking about that this evening Thank

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You Rachel thank you Tim I was wanted to

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talk to you tonight about some research

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that stopped the Australian vaccination

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network recently presented at an

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immunization conference and I think this

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is quite unique in the sense that if you

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know anything about s avian you'll know

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that we primarily are a Facebook page

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we're primarily a bunch of diligent

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ratbags if you like so we're just a

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rough sort of gathering of people that

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came together in 2009 in fact the group

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was formed by Daniel Raphael a and since

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then we've grown to about 12,000 members

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but essentially we're not an organized

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group really our focus is facebook so

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that's kind of our official presence but

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we do have a different levels of

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expertise across the group and some of

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that includes scientists medical

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professionals also lay people and we

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decided after some some questions from

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people in the immunization research

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field that wanted to know well okay you

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guys have been going since 2009 but what

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evidence do you have that you're having

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any impact on the avian you need to do

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some analysis and we thought well you

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know what that's actually a good point

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and we do have scientists and medical

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doctors and statisticians and

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epidemiologists in our midst

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so we thought it's about time we got off

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our proverbial sand actually did

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something that we could present to the

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scientific community and so that

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resulted in this long title which is a

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poster that was presented by Tracey

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McDermott as the first author Tracy is

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an undergraduate student she just began

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studying nursing and was at nursing or

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public health she's yeah she's a

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first-year public health undergraduate

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students so this poster was presented at

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the 14th annual public health

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association of Australian national

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immunization conference so this is a

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prestigious well-respected conference in

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Melbourne and for Tracy to get the

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opportunity to go there and present this

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data was we think pretty cool so I'm the

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last author which means I basically just

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called the shots when people did stuff I

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didn't like but this is a collective

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effort Tracy is the first author so all

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complaints would go to her please of

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course Anne was involved there are other

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people that were involved in putting

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this work together whose names are not

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here but we're all volunteers we all did

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this in our spare time and I'm just

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going to go through some of the results

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that we got and that I think it's pretty

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cool that we were able to get this

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together and present it at a scientific

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conference because you still represents

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a publication for us so the impetus I

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guess for this was that as I mentioned

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we've been going since 2009 but

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throughout this time we'd observed that

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we thought the media had kind of changed

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the way it was treating the Australian

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vaccination network and i like to use

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his slide as an example of how the

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ex-president used to be referred to by

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the media this was from a talk that was

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in fact in 2010 i think where she was

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referred to as australia's leading

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expert in vaccination now this was one

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of the issues that we that we took with

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the way the media treated this group

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because this person doesn't have any

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qualifications his person doesn't have

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any experience in medicine this person

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doesn't have any statistics experience

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or any qualifications in fact she just

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she finished high school but didn't

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finish anything at university so when we

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came to

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will has the media's treatment or

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perception of the way they now refer to

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this group this was sort of our are

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beginning to see how things have gone

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since then so these are some of a

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selection of some of the news clips that

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I just found today from googling they

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have occurred in the mainstream media in

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the last well five years since we since

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this stop avn has been around the way

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you used to have Australia's leading

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expert in vaccination you now get

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headlines in the Murdoch press that say

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things like anti-vaccine zealots

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anti-vaccine groups charity status

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opposed in Fairfax health experts call

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for ban on anti-vaccine campaigner and I

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bring to your attention the use of the

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term anti-vaccine this is something that

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we wanted to measure in our research

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because previously our and I guess what

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I'm trying to say is the way science

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works usually is people make an

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observation and then they go forward and

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test it so our observation was that the

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media had stopped calling these people

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vaccine watchdogs or parents groups who

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were lobbying for safety of vaccines

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they've now started calling them what

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they are anti-vaccine campaigners so we

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started to see all these things across

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the mainstream media we're able to

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actually measure this and I'll show you

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the results for that in a minute but

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some of the other things that happened

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is we didn't have to do all this work

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the Murdoch press actually helped us a

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little bit which I never thought I'd say

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really some of you may remember the

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Telegraph campaign called no job no play

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and this was actually spearheaded by

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journalists by the name of Jane Hansen

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and this ran over several weeks where

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the telegraph was campaigning to

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increase vaccination rates in New South

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Wales and also to discredit the

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anti-vaccination movement and in fact

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this campaign is now spread to

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Queensland unless they're doing some of

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his stuff in Queensland so I wanted to

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start with his slide because this was

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the response that we got from the

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Australian vaccination network once they

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found out we presented this poster and I

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wanted to highlight

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a couple of terms that they use because

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throughout the course of our work

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they've they keep claiming that they

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want respect and everyone deserves

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respect everyone deserves freedom of

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speech and we should respect them so in

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fact it took them quite a few days I

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think and to find out we've been at the

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conference so we were sort of waiting

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with bated breath to see what their

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response would be but they referred to

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us as anti-competitive illegal behavior

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s avian and their leaders are deluded

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hateful and discriminatory people now

275
00:12:14,019 --> 00:12:12,380
keep in mind that this was scientific

276
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:14,029
data presented at a scientific

277
00:12:19,150 --> 00:12:16,510
conference this was not some sort of

278
00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:19,160
fright bat column written in an opinion

279
00:12:23,650 --> 00:12:21,470
piece this was data we we put together

280
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:23,660
as scientists they then called us

281
00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:25,250
religious fanatics whose God is

282
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,310
pseudoscience and whose mantra is

283
00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:30,079
whoever disagrees with us should be

284
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:33,649
subject to our Inquisition it goes on

285
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:36,320
about how we are too stupid or something

286
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:40,250
and but I particularly like this this

287
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:42,770
last line about your members believe in

288
00:12:46,660 --> 00:12:44,510
pseudoscience and you have an amazing

289
00:12:48,910 --> 00:12:46,670
ability to ignore any and all scientific

290
00:12:52,329 --> 00:12:48,920
research that doesn't fit in with your

291
00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:52,339
own views on the subject I think that we

292
00:12:59,319 --> 00:12:56,390
need to highlight this don't you to me

293
00:13:02,740 --> 00:12:59,329
it sounds a little bit he put cat all

294
00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:02,750
yeah maybe or maybe they're just

295
00:13:07,810 --> 00:13:05,510
projecting projecting in her high

296
00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:07,820
definition perhaps so to going through

297
00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:08,990
some of the data that we put together

298
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:13,040
for this poster so as I said the group

299
00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:14,930
was established by Daniel Raphael a on

300
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:18,649
Facebook in 2009 there's now more than

301
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,170
12,000 people that like the page which

302
00:13:25,449 --> 00:13:22,880
doesn't necessarily mean they're members

303
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:25,459
or anything nobody pays a fee we don't

304
00:13:29,019 --> 00:13:27,110
collect funds we don't collect money

305
00:13:30,579 --> 00:13:29,029
we're not a charity but we're just a

306
00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:30,589
bunch of people that like the page and

307
00:13:36,220 --> 00:13:33,620
follow the procedures or the process of

308
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:36,230
what's happening and I guess we use the

309
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:38,890
novel technique of combating

310
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:41,510
anti-vaccine misinformation primarily

311
00:13:45,009 --> 00:13:43,519
through social media so there's a lot of

312
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:45,019
us that have very high presence on

313
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:47,690
Twitter as well and there's a number of

314
00:13:51,980 --> 00:13:50,370
very diligent admins that

315
00:13:54,410 --> 00:13:51,990
look after the facebook page and an is

316
00:13:56,540 --> 00:13:54,420
usually the night shift I tend to do the

317
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:56,550
evening shift and then we have the guys

318
00:14:02,060 --> 00:13:59,279
during the day so basically one of the

319
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:02,070
aims of our group is to to seek to

320
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:03,930
inhibit the reach and influence of the

321
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,240
avian and this is because not only

322
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:08,160
because they actually profit in terms of

323
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,930
money from perpetuating their

324
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:11,279
misinformation but they're obviously

325
00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:13,770
doing harm now anyone that opens the

326
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:17,100
papers these days even Eve here from

327
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:20,490
Quebec would see that whooping cough is

328
00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:22,290
making a resurgence there's measles

329
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:24,839
outbreaks all over the world now and a

330
00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:26,160
lot of this is being attributed to

331
00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:28,110
people not getting vaccinated in

332
00:14:31,940 --> 00:14:30,089
particular with the measles outbreaks

333
00:14:34,579 --> 00:14:31,950
we're looking now squarely down to

334
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:34,589
andrew wakefield for the scare mongering

335
00:14:42,140 --> 00:14:39,060
he is responsible for in 1998 so this

336
00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:42,150
sort of stuff is not just science denial

337
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:44,820
that annoys me because I'm a scientist

338
00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:48,210
it has a tangible effect and it often

339
00:14:52,970 --> 00:14:49,830
that results in kids getting sick and

340
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:52,980
nobody wants that so we do this by

341
00:14:57,890 --> 00:14:55,650
several well actually we have a lot of

342
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:57,900
fingers in a lot of pies but everything

343
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,720
is legal and aboveboard I should say

344
00:15:05,210 --> 00:15:02,160
that because we were accused of doing

345
00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:05,220
illegal things in a slide before we do

346
00:15:09,740 --> 00:15:06,630
things like submit complaints to

347
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:09,750
government bodies so for example the avn

348
00:15:12,860 --> 00:15:11,370
used to have a charity license we

349
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:12,870
submitted complaints to that body that

350
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:15,930
looked after those it was taken away we

351
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:17,970
also and I think this is particularly

352
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:19,529
important and I'm particularly proud of

353
00:15:24,220 --> 00:15:22,380
us for this as we offer ourselves as

354
00:15:27,079 --> 00:15:24,230
alternatives to the mainstream media

355
00:15:29,570 --> 00:15:27,089
journalists tend to have this practice

356
00:15:31,579 --> 00:15:29,580
where they'll do a balance story so

357
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:31,589
they'll get somebody who is a doctor

358
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:33,839
who's studied to be a pediatrician for

359
00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:37,110
20 years who works in infectious disease

360
00:15:42,019 --> 00:15:38,700
with children who get sick and then

361
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:42,029
they'll say well hang on we need someone

362
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:44,730
who has some reckons so they'll just

363
00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:46,650
Google someone and find some person who

364
00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:48,870
reckons vaccines might be toxic and

365
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:50,670
they'll put these two people on the same

366
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:52,920
TV program and then say what do you

367
00:15:59,690 --> 00:15:57,120
reckon now that's normally okay because

368
00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:59,700
normally people's opinions are opinions

369
00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:01,380
and that's fine and you know you can say

370
00:16:04,220 --> 00:16:03,000
do you like blue or do not like blue and

371
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:04,230
let's argue that until the cow

372
00:16:11,150 --> 00:16:06,750
come home no problem but when it comes

373
00:16:12,740 --> 00:16:11,160
to stories or information that involves

374
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:12,750
science and medicine this can be

375
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:14,730
particularly specious because it can

376
00:16:18,770 --> 00:16:16,680
result in people making the wrong

377
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,780
decision based on false information and

378
00:16:23,540 --> 00:16:20,880
this is called false balance so for many

379
00:16:25,490 --> 00:16:23,550
many years the media would go to the avn

380
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:25,500
and say okay what do you guys reckon and

381
00:16:29,330 --> 00:16:27,660
they would sit them on stage next to a

382
00:16:31,670 --> 00:16:29,340
pediatrician and they do their reckons

383
00:16:34,130 --> 00:16:31,680
so now we make an effort to offer

384
00:16:36,410 --> 00:16:34,140
ourselves up as experts or at least

385
00:16:38,510 --> 00:16:36,420
having some form of expertise so that

386
00:16:40,370 --> 00:16:38,520
we're there instead so that's what I

387
00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:40,380
mean by a considerable effort is placed

388
00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:42,390
on encouraging media outlets to stop

389
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:44,700
doing false balance so the boring bits

390
00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:47,010
of how we went about this analysis is

391
00:16:50,930 --> 00:16:49,380
our methods and it's pretty simple and

392
00:16:53,650 --> 00:16:50,940
we have a lot more work to do but I

393
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:53,660
think what we found was quite impressive

394
00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:57,690
this was done by one of our authors that

395
00:17:02,060 --> 00:16:59,130
you saw at the beginning so we looked

396
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:02,070
through the print media for the last

397
00:17:06,610 --> 00:17:04,050
five years using a database called

398
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:06,620
factiva which allows you to mine all

399
00:17:15,050 --> 00:17:10,530
incidences of mentions of a certain name

400
00:17:18,290 --> 00:17:15,060
of a VN or the name of the ex-president

401
00:17:21,910 --> 00:17:18,300
and then what we did was we classified

402
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:21,920
these results according to two things-

403
00:17:25,970 --> 00:17:24,330
so was the press reporting in a negative

404
00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:25,980
fashion were they calling them

405
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:28,980
anti-vaccine for example or positive

406
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:30,510
where they referring to them as vaccine

407
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:33,600
watchdogs are a non-profit parent group

408
00:17:41,030 --> 00:17:35,970
or something that didn't make them sound

409
00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:41,040
bad and we also looked at their finances

410
00:17:45,260 --> 00:17:43,230
because obviously one of the reasons

411
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:45,270
that these people are able to gain

412
00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:48,480
access to parents and access to people

413
00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:50,340
that want information about vaccines is

414
00:17:55,550 --> 00:17:53,310
if they've got enough money and back in

415
00:17:57,410 --> 00:17:55,560
2010 this group used to do a lot of two

416
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,420
is where they go out they cross the

417
00:18:01,760 --> 00:17:59,520
whole country in fact and give seminars

418
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,770
all over the place from Perth to

419
00:18:06,620 --> 00:18:03,840
Griffith to Queensland talking to

420
00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:06,630
parents and that requires money so we

421
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:08,310
wanted to know if our campaign to

422
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:10,410
discredit them had impacted on their

423
00:18:17,769 --> 00:18:15,090
finances and yes it did quite

424
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:17,779
significantly actually

425
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:20,129
this is a little dollop of science

426
00:18:26,570 --> 00:18:23,970
called a graph it's very sciency but

427
00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:26,580
basically what you can see is this red

428
00:18:33,019 --> 00:18:28,590
line here is indicating when si bien was

429
00:18:37,009 --> 00:18:33,029
formed and you can see here we've got

430
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:37,019
the income that they made over time you

431
00:18:43,779 --> 00:18:38,970
can see that it plateaued and then fell

432
00:18:46,519 --> 00:18:43,789
in 2009 and beyond their expenses

433
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:46,529
followed that line as well which means

434
00:18:51,349 --> 00:18:49,710
their profit is going down donations

435
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:51,359
that they received because they rely on

436
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:53,940
a lot of donations from the public they

437
00:18:58,639 --> 00:18:57,210
went up initially because they did they

438
00:19:00,109 --> 00:18:58,649
did ask for a lot of help when they

439
00:19:03,529 --> 00:19:00,119
initially started receiving criticism

440
00:19:06,259 --> 00:19:03,539
from us but then they fell almost down

441
00:19:08,149 --> 00:19:06,269
to zero by 2012 now you probably can't

442
00:19:11,509 --> 00:19:08,159
see this line here but it's pale blue

443
00:19:15,259 --> 00:19:11,519
and it follows the x-axis here perfectly

444
00:19:22,419 --> 00:19:15,269
can anyone read what that says it says

445
00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:22,429
donations by the avn from 1998 to 2012

446
00:19:29,419 --> 00:19:26,609
totals from what we calculated four

447
00:19:31,759 --> 00:19:29,429
hundred and eighty dollars now these

448
00:19:33,229 --> 00:19:31,769
people were a charity in New South Wales

449
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,239
they were collecting money for

450
00:19:38,539 --> 00:19:36,720
charitable purposes allegedly but we can

451
00:19:40,099 --> 00:19:38,549
only find evidence in their financial

452
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,109
records of donating four hundred and

453
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:43,200
eighty dollars and just in case you

454
00:19:47,180 --> 00:19:45,210
don't know if you are a registered

455
00:19:48,830 --> 00:19:47,190
charity your finances are available

456
00:19:50,659 --> 00:19:48,840
online to anybody so we didn't do

457
00:19:53,919 --> 00:19:50,669
anything illegal to access them anyone

458
00:19:57,049 --> 00:19:53,929
can access a charity's financial records

459
00:19:59,210 --> 00:19:57,059
but on top of that if you do if you add

460
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:59,220
all these up and subtract everything you

461
00:20:03,469 --> 00:20:00,720
find there's about a hundred thousand

462
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:03,479
dollars missing as well don't know what

463
00:20:08,389 --> 00:20:06,080
happened to that but the point is that

464
00:20:11,269 --> 00:20:08,399
financially we've had quite a big impact

465
00:20:13,580 --> 00:20:11,279
on their ability to operate so in

466
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:13,590
summary it shows that since the

467
00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:15,299
formation of sav and there's been a

468
00:20:18,919 --> 00:20:17,700
decrease of fifty percent in income to

469
00:20:21,109 --> 00:20:18,929
this chart not well they're not a

470
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:21,119
charity anymore and a seventy percent

471
00:20:25,639 --> 00:20:23,369
decrease in the number of donations that

472
00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:25,649
they've received so this is clearly

473
00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:27,179
going to impact their bottom line and

474
00:20:32,890 --> 00:20:30,470
their ability to get out and disseminate

475
00:20:36,669 --> 00:20:32,900
misinformation so the next thing we

476
00:20:38,770 --> 00:20:36,679
looked at was how the media has been has

477
00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:38,780
dealt with the avian since we've been

478
00:20:42,399 --> 00:20:40,340
trying to educate them about their true

479
00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:42,409
agenda and I should say that their name

480
00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:45,590
has since changed that acronym is still

481
00:20:49,090 --> 00:20:47,270
the avian but they were known as the

482
00:20:50,830 --> 00:20:49,100
Australian vaccination network for a

483
00:20:52,690 --> 00:20:50,840
very long time until quite recently in

484
00:20:54,940 --> 00:20:52,700
fact this year I think they had to

485
00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:54,950
change their name but the Australian

486
00:20:59,140 --> 00:20:56,510
vaccination networking sounds like quite

487
00:21:02,799 --> 00:20:59,150
an innocuous lame doesn't it it doesn't

488
00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:02,809
sound like it's anti anything so this in

489
00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:04,940
my opinion is deliberate because they

490
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:06,470
don't want to stand up and say where the

491
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:08,330
anti-vaccination network because then

492
00:21:13,149 --> 00:21:10,490
how are they going to coax parents into

493
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:13,159
listening to them so they've since had

494
00:21:17,860 --> 00:21:14,480
to change their name to Australian

495
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:17,870
vaccine skeptics network I let you argue

496
00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:19,850
whether the skeptics is possibly a

497
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:22,760
little bit misguided but they still use

498
00:21:28,330 --> 00:21:26,630
the acronym avian in any case what we

499
00:21:30,190 --> 00:21:28,340
did here was we tracked the number of

500
00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:30,200
mentions in the media and we rank them

501
00:21:36,220 --> 00:21:31,960
according to positive or negative

502
00:21:39,130 --> 00:21:36,230
negatives up here in red and positives

503
00:21:40,899 --> 00:21:39,140
up here in blue this is the line where s

504
00:21:43,450 --> 00:21:40,909
avian was formed and you can see there's

505
00:21:46,450 --> 00:21:43,460
this massive increase in red those who

506
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:46,460
are astute amongst you will also notice

507
00:21:51,789 --> 00:21:48,710
that there's an increase in the number

508
00:21:53,049 --> 00:21:51,799
of mentions over all these increasing

509
00:21:57,250 --> 00:21:53,059
proportion that was increasingly

510
00:21:58,990 --> 00:21:57,260
negative so we went from sixty-seven

511
00:22:00,940 --> 00:21:59,000
percent of these mentions where negative

512
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:00,950
versus thirty-three percent over the

513
00:22:06,060 --> 00:22:03,710
five years since SI bien was formed and

514
00:22:10,180 --> 00:22:06,070
this was compared to eighty-two percent

515
00:22:13,690 --> 00:22:10,190
were positive before we started working

516
00:22:14,830 --> 00:22:13,700
on this project so in summary affecting

517
00:22:17,049 --> 00:22:14,840
their bottom line in terms of their

518
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:17,059
finances and affecting the media's

519
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:18,559
impression and the way that the media

520
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:21,730
treats them has multiple effects it's

521
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:24,850
certainly impeded on their reputation

522
00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:28,250
there now probably the only place I'll

523
00:22:32,860 --> 00:22:30,710
get treated well and positively and as

524
00:22:35,919 --> 00:22:32,870
if they're doing a good job is is on

525
00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:35,929
conspiracy podcasts and on conspiracy

526
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:39,289
websites the mainstream media except for

527
00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:42,799
very occasionally refers to them almost

528
00:22:46,419 --> 00:22:44,190
one hundred percent is anti back

529
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:46,429
seen they no longer refer to them as a

530
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:48,690
nice parent group he's just trying to

531
00:22:53,509 --> 00:22:51,450
look after vaccines so this has been

532
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:53,519
this shift in media perception that

533
00:22:58,970 --> 00:22:56,730
we've tracked here has been compounded

534
00:23:00,529 --> 00:22:58,980
by several other projects that we've

535
00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:00,539
done on the side and these have been

536
00:23:04,639 --> 00:23:02,340
initiated by s avian and they involve

537
00:23:06,139 --> 00:23:04,649
government sanctions and these include

538
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:06,149
things like them losing their charity

539
00:23:11,659 --> 00:23:09,480
license are this includes them having a

540
00:23:13,850 --> 00:23:11,669
public warning issued by the healthcare

541
00:23:15,860 --> 00:23:13,860
Complaints Commission this includes them

542
00:23:17,869 --> 00:23:15,870
having to change their name to the

543
00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:17,879
Australian vaccine skeptic network to

544
00:23:23,539 --> 00:23:21,809
better indicate their true agenda and I

545
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:23,549
think this is really important is that

546
00:23:27,049 --> 00:23:25,529
we've offered ourselves as experts were

547
00:23:29,570 --> 00:23:27,059
appropriate to the media in place of

548
00:23:31,639 --> 00:23:29,580
them so instead of just taking them away

549
00:23:33,259 --> 00:23:31,649
from the medium of saying all their bad

550
00:23:36,139 --> 00:23:33,269
we've said look here's a better option

551
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:36,149
talk to us so these are very preliminary

552
00:23:39,169 --> 00:23:37,710
results and we're hoping to do more

553
00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:39,179
analysis and we're hoping to publish

554
00:23:44,029 --> 00:23:42,120
this as a paper if we can in the future

555
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:44,039
but we're very proud to have presented

556
00:23:48,249 --> 00:23:45,330
it at a scientific peer-reviewed

557
00:23:51,379 --> 00:23:48,259
conference and we think that overall

558
00:23:54,139 --> 00:23:51,389
it's resulted in there in reducing their

559
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,149
ability to spread misinformation and in

560
00:23:58,190 --> 00:23:56,159
a period where the Internet is so

561
00:24:01,580 --> 00:23:58,200
important in people's health decisions

562
00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:01,590
where people search for diagnosis online

563
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:04,470
and the ABA and comes up as the number

564
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:07,200
one hit on Google we need to make people

565
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:09,450
aware that what they say is not accurate

566
00:24:14,990 --> 00:24:11,970
and is not based on science if you got

567
00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:15,000
this month's skeptic which is the one

568
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:17,070
Tim showed earlier there is a letter in

569
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:19,769
there from Ken MacLeod who is sort of

570
00:24:24,379 --> 00:24:22,799
the grandpa of si bien and he lists some

571
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:24,389
of the things that we have achieved

572
00:24:30,019 --> 00:24:26,970
since 2009 it goes into more detail than

573
00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:30,029
what I have today but he now he mentions

574
00:24:34,490 --> 00:24:32,370
that the avian and the ex-presidents

575
00:24:39,789 --> 00:24:34,500
fame is now infamous and its fortunes

576
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:39,799
are spent we've also done things where

577
00:24:44,419 --> 00:24:42,690
the Australian College of Midwives they

578
00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:44,429
have a textbook and they actually listed

579
00:24:49,549 --> 00:24:47,700
in their vaccinations section a link to

580
00:24:51,049 --> 00:24:49,559
the avians website for people who are

581
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:51,059
studying nursing to go and find more

582
00:24:55,490 --> 00:24:53,730
information now one of our members was I

583
00:24:57,769 --> 00:24:55,500
don't know what she was doing on a

584
00:24:59,299 --> 00:24:57,779
saturday night Joanne venom ooh but she

585
00:25:02,209 --> 00:24:59,309
is reading this textbook and she found

586
00:25:04,129 --> 00:25:02,219
this link and she got it removed may be

587
00:25:06,529 --> 00:25:04,139
a small thing but potentially could be

588
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:06,539
exposed to many many people in addition

589
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:08,369
there are many chiropractors who are

590
00:25:12,709 --> 00:25:10,559
anti-vaccine and many of them refer

591
00:25:14,749 --> 00:25:12,719
their patients or many of themselves

592
00:25:18,830 --> 00:25:14,759
were professional members of the avian

593
00:25:20,779 --> 00:25:18,840
and constant campaigning bias resulted

594
00:25:22,849 --> 00:25:20,789
in the chiropractic board issuing a

595
00:25:24,859 --> 00:25:22,859
warning to chiropractors that they were

596
00:25:25,849 --> 00:25:24,869
not to use anti-vaccine material and

597
00:25:28,430 --> 00:25:25,859
they were not to tell their patients

598
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:28,440
about it anymore also some of you may

599
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:29,849
know that the healthcare Complaints

600
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:31,440
Commission now has extra powers to

601
00:25:38,479 --> 00:25:35,369
investigate dodgy kind of health claims

602
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:38,489
this change in legislation resulted

603
00:25:42,019 --> 00:25:40,710
because the avian took the healthcare

604
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:42,029
Complaints Commission to the Supreme

605
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:45,089
Court a number of years ago and lost so

606
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:46,080
there's a lot of things that have

607
00:25:51,469 --> 00:25:49,049
happened so I just wanted to finish with

608
00:25:55,159 --> 00:25:51,479
a quote from the ex-president of the

609
00:25:57,379 --> 00:25:55,169
avian because although they tend them to

610
00:25:59,570 --> 00:25:57,389
hate science they hate doctors they hate

611
00:26:02,450 --> 00:25:59,580
science but they they like it when it

612
00:26:05,629 --> 00:26:02,460
suits them so this is a quote I think

613
00:26:07,549 --> 00:26:05,639
from 2010 where they were talking about

614
00:26:09,409 --> 00:26:07,559
how they wanted to do a study comparing

615
00:26:11,209 --> 00:26:09,419
vaccinated and unvaccinated children

616
00:26:13,219 --> 00:26:11,219
because they insist that unvaccinated

617
00:26:16,190 --> 00:26:13,229
children are going to be healthier have

618
00:26:18,139 --> 00:26:16,200
less allergies in fact these studies

619
00:26:21,169 --> 00:26:18,149
have been done and really the only

620
00:26:23,329 --> 00:26:21,179
difference is unvaccinated kids get more

621
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:23,339
vaccine-preventable diseases that's it I

622
00:26:28,339 --> 00:26:25,289
mean you know that's what you'd expect

623
00:26:30,829 --> 00:26:28,349
right but they were really really

624
00:26:33,049 --> 00:26:30,839
annoyed that we presented this poster it

625
00:26:35,749 --> 00:26:33,059
was like it was their Achilles heel and

626
00:26:37,369 --> 00:26:35,759
it reminded me of this quote from there

627
00:26:39,409 --> 00:26:37,379
ex-president some years ago talking

628
00:26:41,719 --> 00:26:39,419
about how they tried to publish once in

629
00:26:43,999 --> 00:26:41,729
the medical journal of Australia they

630
00:26:45,709 --> 00:26:44,009
apparently did a survey of their members

631
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:45,719
and they asked them about whether their

632
00:26:51,019 --> 00:26:48,059
kids had more allergies had more asthma

633
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:51,029
got sicker more often but you know what

634
00:27:00,889 --> 00:26:53,039
and they even had a special computer

635
00:27:02,959 --> 00:27:00,899
program and a scientist and even though

636
00:27:04,729 --> 00:27:02,969
they had a special computer program and

637
00:27:07,159 --> 00:27:04,739
a scientist the Medical Journal of

638
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:07,169
Australia wouldn't publish it so what I

639
00:27:10,639 --> 00:27:08,970
don't know I wonder if this is kind of

640
00:27:11,460 --> 00:27:10,649
the special computer program they had

641
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:11,470
not

642
00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:15,039
sure but I think in light of the fact

643
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:16,870
that you know this is the kind of

644
00:27:22,289 --> 00:27:19,840
language that resulted in us publishing

645
00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:22,299
science through the Public Health

646
00:27:26,909 --> 00:27:24,460
Association of Australia so I think

647
00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:26,919
we've really found their Achilles heel

648
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:29,980
in terms of I mean they already despise

649
00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:31,809
us but they can't get into the

650
00:27:37,169 --> 00:27:34,750
peer-reviewed literature but we can so i

651
00:27:39,810 --> 00:27:37,179
think in case you weren't listening or

652
00:27:42,210 --> 00:27:39,820
if you fell asleep too long didn't read

653
00:27:45,060 --> 00:27:42,220
their feels are hurt so i mentioned at

654
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,070
the beginning that um the ex-president

655
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:47,440
talks about how they should they deserve

656
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,090
respect and there should be a respectful

657
00:27:54,539 --> 00:27:51,760
discussion between people even though

658
00:27:56,430 --> 00:27:54,549
it's an emotive topic there is something

659
00:27:58,260 --> 00:27:56,440
wrong when people have to rely on

660
00:28:00,529 --> 00:27:58,270
name-calling to try and prove their

661
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:00,539
point well I don't know what that was

662
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:02,710
these are some of the things that she's

663
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:05,260
called doctors throughout the course of

664
00:28:12,390 --> 00:28:08,110
us monitoring what she says on social

665
00:28:15,149 --> 00:28:12,400
media this one vaccination is rape with

666
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:15,159
full penetration was one of the things

667
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:18,010
that she said and here she says I'm not

668
00:28:21,620 --> 00:28:19,510
the one who does the bullying why don't

669
00:28:24,659 --> 00:28:21,630
you ask SI bien to treat me with respect

670
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:24,669
well you know what here is what I reckon

671
00:28:30,029 --> 00:28:27,970
the avn should do publish in the

672
00:28:32,909 --> 00:28:30,039
peer-reviewed literature go to a

673
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:32,919
conference like we did present a poster

674
00:28:38,610 --> 00:28:36,370
and then like all science we can argue

675
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:38,620
the facts of vaccination within the

676
00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:40,960
pages of peer review how's that sound

677
00:28:45,390 --> 00:28:44,350
they could close I say that because I

678
00:28:46,649 --> 00:28:45,400
don't think they're ever going to get

679
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:46,659
into the peer-reviewed literature but

680
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:48,970
you know what they've spent 20 years

681
00:28:55,020 --> 00:28:52,450
doing research apparently in 20 years my

682
00:28:59,549 --> 00:28:55,030
degree is only took me eight how long

683
00:29:01,620 --> 00:28:59,559
did yours take an probably 20 but in any

684
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:01,630
case they could go to university and

685
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:02,950
they could have got a degree and they

686
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:06,130
can publish like we did this work was

687
00:29:09,870 --> 00:29:08,110
undertaken by volunteers there's a lot

688
00:29:11,970 --> 00:29:09,880
of people that were involved not just

689
00:29:13,710 --> 00:29:11,980
the people that are named Tracy is the

690
00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:13,720
first author I'm presenting it tonight

691
00:29:19,169 --> 00:29:16,900
on her behalf and is also involved many

692
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:19,179
other people helped out we can be found

693
00:29:41,870 --> 00:29:38,450
our friends at the canberra skeptics at

694
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:41,880
canberra skeptics organ a you tell us

695
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:42,720
that they've got some interesting

696
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:45,210
upcoming events nordenskjold and

697
00:29:50,150 --> 00:29:48,090
Shackleton early and Arctic exploration

698
00:29:52,730 --> 00:29:50,160
for science this is going to be on

699
00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:52,740
thursday the twenty first of august six

700
00:29:59,480 --> 00:29:57,000
pm to 730 p.m. where Japan theatre

701
00:30:02,240 --> 00:29:59,490
Questacon the early history of Antarctic

702
00:30:05,330 --> 00:30:02,250
exploration was all in the name of

703
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,340
science but dr. Paul Willis oh he's from

704
00:30:09,169 --> 00:30:07,200
the Royal Institution of Australia has

705
00:30:13,690 --> 00:30:09,179
been to the Antarctica eight times eight

706
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:13,700
times what why doesn't the invite me

707
00:30:19,370 --> 00:30:16,050
following in the footsteps of the two

708
00:30:21,530 --> 00:30:19,380
early Arctic explorers one a household

709
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:21,540
name the other almost completely unknown

710
00:30:28,010 --> 00:30:25,110
in this dog dr. Paul Willis will take

711
00:30:30,140 --> 00:30:28,020
you to the frozen continent and recreate

712
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:30,150
to epic voyages of scientific discovery

713
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:32,250
all that sounds like a good talk folks

714
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:34,530
if you're in Canberra i think i can

715
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:36,690
really recommend that talk poor willis

716
00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:40,559
and arctica eight times hmm if you go

717
00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:42,600
ask him about the plesiosaur he found

718
00:30:47,860 --> 00:30:44,820
once Canberra skeptics also have on the

719
00:30:50,450 --> 00:30:47,870
twenty-second of August our trivia night

720
00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:50,460
Canberra skeptics science trivia night

721
00:30:55,460 --> 00:30:54,120
at King O'Malley's that's a pub right in

722
00:30:59,299 --> 00:30:55,470
the middle of Canberra for more

723
00:31:08,990 --> 00:30:59,309
information ww Canberra skeptic saw a

724
00:31:17,910 --> 00:31:13,890
this is the cosmos a network of a

725
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:17,920
hundred billion galaxies and it's the

726
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,110
congratulations to Adrienne Morgan the

727
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:28,880
winner of the cosmos DVD pack the

728
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:30,770
billions and billions photograph

729
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:33,170
competition you can view Adrian's

730
00:31:38,410 --> 00:31:35,570
winning photograph based on the billions

731
00:31:41,950 --> 00:31:38,420
and billions idea via visiting the

732
00:31:44,290 --> 00:31:41,960
skeptic zone Facebook page as Adrian

733
00:31:46,270 --> 00:31:44,300
says his picture is a pair of equations

734
00:31:49,210 --> 00:31:46,280
one horizontal the other vertical like a

735
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:49,220
crossword physical objects stand-in for

736
00:31:54,730 --> 00:31:51,710
quantities the first equation reads

737
00:31:58,090 --> 00:31:54,740
hundreds by thousands cubed is less than

738
00:31:59,860 --> 00:31:58,100
icing sugar hmmm if hundreds and

739
00:32:01,510 --> 00:31:59,870
thousands the famous confectionary are

740
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:01,520
called hundreds and thousands then icing

741
00:32:06,370 --> 00:32:03,770
sugar could be very reasonably called

742
00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:06,380
billions and billions in fact I

743
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:08,750
calculate that just one milliliter of

744
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:10,490
icing sugar contains more than 10

745
00:32:18,100 --> 00:32:14,960
billion grains Adrian I'm sure you're

746
00:32:21,220 --> 00:32:18,110
right congratulations your cosmos DVD

747
00:32:36,299 --> 00:32:21,230
pack the complete new series is on the

748
00:32:41,379 --> 00:32:39,039
welcome to a weakened science from ra oz

749
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:41,389
bring you the science you need to know

750
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:44,210
where did the earth come from the Big

751
00:32:54,609 --> 00:32:46,610
Bang some divine intervention or the

752
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:54,619
rack nos maybe let's go right back to

753
00:32:59,470 --> 00:32:56,570
the Big Bang the start of the universe

754
00:33:01,600 --> 00:32:59,480
after the Big Bang the universe mostly

755
00:33:03,989 --> 00:33:01,610
consisted of two forms of the lightest

756
00:33:06,419 --> 00:33:03,999
elements which are hydrogen and helium

757
00:33:09,159 --> 00:33:06,429
some of these started clumping together

758
00:33:11,470 --> 00:33:09,169
creating heavier masses which attracted

759
00:33:13,389 --> 00:33:11,480
more and more particles in words as they

760
00:33:15,460 --> 00:33:13,399
clump together they start some nuclear

761
00:33:18,220 --> 00:33:15,470
fusion which releases energy and

762
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:18,230
resulted in them forming stars and right

763
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:19,970
in the center of these stars where

764
00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:22,159
fusion was occurring heavier elements

765
00:33:26,769 --> 00:33:24,169
such as carbon and iron formed

766
00:33:28,749 --> 00:33:26,779
eventually some of these stars exploded

767
00:33:31,330 --> 00:33:28,759
in a supernova flinging themselves

768
00:33:33,310 --> 00:33:31,340
throughout the universe and restarting

769
00:33:35,379 --> 00:33:33,320
this process of star formation and

770
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:35,389
building more and more heavy elements

771
00:33:42,580 --> 00:33:40,610
one of these stars is our son after a

772
00:33:44,350 --> 00:33:42,590
formed the Sun's gravity started

773
00:33:46,330 --> 00:33:44,360
collecting rocky debris into a disk

774
00:33:48,609 --> 00:33:46,340
called a nebula with some of the

775
00:33:50,859 --> 00:33:48,619
colliding and combining to form larger

776
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:50,869
bodies with these larger bodies came

777
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:52,850
stronger gravity collecting more and

778
00:33:57,129 --> 00:33:55,490
more pieces together this process and

779
00:33:58,840 --> 00:33:57,139
collecting bits together and combining

780
00:34:01,090 --> 00:33:58,850
them into a larger body is called a

781
00:34:02,830 --> 00:34:01,100
chrétien radioactive decay and heats

782
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:02,840
from these collisions cause the young

783
00:34:07,210 --> 00:34:05,450
earth to be molten but after a while the

784
00:34:10,270 --> 00:34:07,220
outer surface eventually cooled and

785
00:34:12,849 --> 00:34:10,280
became the crust the molten earth still

786
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:12,859
exists under the crust today as mantle

787
00:34:17,409 --> 00:34:15,440
so the Big Bang didn't directly create

788
00:34:19,869 --> 00:34:17,419
the earth but did lead to a process

789
00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:19,879
which results in its formation and now

790
00:34:27,010 --> 00:34:24,190
for fast facts about planetary formation

791
00:34:29,050 --> 00:34:27,020
the process of creating the earth took a

792
00:34:31,330 --> 00:34:29,060
really long time it is thought the earth

793
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:31,340
has only existed for third of the time

794
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:34,010
since the Big Bang during its early life

795
00:34:38,380 --> 00:34:36,410
the Sun created solar winds which pushed

796
00:34:40,150 --> 00:34:38,390
gas molecules to the outer regions of

797
00:34:42,070 --> 00:34:40,160
the solar system what was left behind

798
00:34:44,830 --> 00:34:42,080
were the rock clumps which went on to

799
00:34:46,570 --> 00:34:44,840
form the earth and other planets the

800
00:34:48,220 --> 00:34:46,580
moon is thought to be made up of bits of

801
00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:48,230
Earth which broken off during a

802
00:34:52,930 --> 00:34:51,110
collision with a large body these bits

803
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:52,940
eventually clump together to form a

804
00:34:57,820 --> 00:34:55,370
single moon and I mentioned that the

805
00:34:59,980 --> 00:34:57,830
earth formed out of rock clumps so water

806
00:35:03,070 --> 00:34:59,990
on Earth was most likely introduced by

807
00:35:05,020 --> 00:35:03,080
impacts from icy meteorites that's it

808
00:35:06,490 --> 00:35:05,030
for this week in science for more

809
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:06,500
information on the formation of planets

810
00:35:13,570 --> 00:35:11,170
go to the are ales website RI aus ok you

811
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:13,580
follow us on twitter at our hours and

812
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:16,370
like us on facebook i'm ben lewis and

813
00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:33,870
do you want to get in touch with nature

814
00:35:37,350 --> 00:35:35,620
without the fallacies come along to

815
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:37,360
camping skeptically organized by the

816
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:39,790
Brisbane skeptics Society spend two

817
00:35:43,470 --> 00:35:41,410
nights at the tool borough chalet in the

818
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:43,480
picturesque vanya mountain enjoy the

819
00:35:47,370 --> 00:35:45,250
company of fellow skeptic to push walks

820
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:47,380
barbecues and pseudoscience movie night

821
00:35:51,420 --> 00:35:49,570
along with a few drinks it's only sixty

822
00:35:54,090 --> 00:35:51,430
dollars for two nights September 12 to

823
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:54,100
the 14th places are strictly limited so

824
00:36:15,440 --> 00:35:55,810
go to Brisbane skeptics Todd org for

825
00:36:21,330 --> 00:36:18,300
the following appeared in sunshine coast

826
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:21,340
daily newspaper August thirteenth 2014

827
00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:24,370
by Kathy sundström appalling vaccination

828
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:26,380
rates on the Sunshine Coast have sparked

829
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:28,510
the need for a beaming new immunization

830
00:36:33,540 --> 00:36:30,930
billboard along the Bruce Highway

831
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:33,550
Sunshine Coast Medicare local has

832
00:36:38,070 --> 00:36:35,410
launched its immunization billboard

833
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:38,080
campaign starting in palmview as a

834
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:39,610
result of the region having the highest

835
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:41,650
number of conscientious objectors to

836
00:36:47,310 --> 00:36:44,710
immunization in the country nationals

837
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:47,320
are on immunization rates show there are

838
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:48,880
six hundred and sixty children in the

839
00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:51,040
region with a registered conscientious

840
00:36:55,410 --> 00:36:52,990
objection next to their name bringing

841
00:36:57,570 --> 00:36:55,420
the figure to 7.1 percent the highest in

842
00:37:01,410 --> 00:36:57,580
the country but this number is less than

843
00:37:03,770 --> 00:37:01,420
half of the region's 1419 children who

844
00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:03,780
records show are not fully immunized

845
00:37:08,970 --> 00:37:06,910
lands bridge-ep Peter Dobson warm that

846
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,980
without herd immunity more people were

847
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:10,720
at risk of falling ill to largely

848
00:37:16,910 --> 00:37:14,290
preventable diseases quote complacency

849
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:16,920
is set in and quote dr. Dobson said

850
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:20,530
quote people don't see the diseases so

851
00:37:24,450 --> 00:37:22,090
they questioned why their child should

852
00:37:26,250 --> 00:37:24,460
get the needles but this complacency can

853
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:26,260
lead to a rise in diseases like whooping

854
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:29,650
cough and quote nutritionist and author

855
00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:32,130
Cindy O'Meara who lives in mooloolaba

856
00:37:37,140 --> 00:37:35,320
doubted the campaign would work she

857
00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:37,150
believes vaccination rates are dropping

858
00:37:42,170 --> 00:37:40,150
because quote more people are becoming

859
00:37:45,980 --> 00:37:42,180
educated about the dangers

860
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:45,990
vaccines end quote mezzo Mira has never

861
00:37:50,810 --> 00:37:48,540
had a vaccine in her life and hasn't had

862
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:50,820
an antibiotic or a painkiller and need

863
00:37:56,270 --> 00:37:54,330
to have her children quote people are

864
00:37:58,700 --> 00:37:56,280
beginning to question immunizations and

865
00:38:02,120 --> 00:37:58,710
the amount we are having end quote she

866
00:38:03,890 --> 00:38:02,130
said quote maybe they're not as safe as

867
00:38:05,690 --> 00:38:03,900
we've been told and they are no longer

868
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:05,700
sure if they should sacrifice their

869
00:38:11,330 --> 00:38:08,130
child for the greater good social media

870
00:38:13,310 --> 00:38:11,340
is telling us the truth now a mother put

871
00:38:15,620 --> 00:38:13,320
up our daughter went to get her cervical

872
00:38:19,310 --> 00:38:15,630
cancer vaccine and three hours later she

873
00:38:21,620 --> 00:38:19,320
is dead end quote she said she wasn't

874
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:21,630
against the quote philosophy behind

875
00:38:29,690 --> 00:38:24,690
vaccines and quote but did question

876
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:29,700
quote dubious ingredients end quote dr.

877
00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:31,410
Dobson stressed the overwhelming

878
00:38:36,890 --> 00:38:33,540
research worldwide back to the benefits

879
00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:36,900
of vaccines quote you're a thousand

880
00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:39,180
times safer from diseases when given

881
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:43,350
vaccines end quote he said quote this is

882
00:38:47,930 --> 00:38:45,270
been shown over many years and many

883
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:47,940
examples people don't want to listen to

884
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:50,010
this they want to throw up one example

885
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,020
of a child screaming as a rare side

886
00:38:55,970 --> 00:38:54,240
effect to a vaccine they don't see the

887
00:38:58,370 --> 00:38:55,980
numbers of cases as we did many years

888
00:39:06,120 --> 00:38:58,380
ago of children dying from whooping

889
00:39:11,770 --> 00:39:08,620
after this story was published of course

890
00:39:15,580 --> 00:39:11,780
many young concerned people wrote to the

891
00:39:17,170 --> 00:39:15,590
editor of the sunshine coast daily Heidi

892
00:39:19,570 --> 00:39:17,180
Robinson from the Northern Rivers

893
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:19,580
vaccination supporters a group received

894
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:21,830
this response thank you for your letter

895
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:24,320
as you are no doubt well aware there are

896
00:39:28,690 --> 00:39:26,570
two very distinct points of view on the

897
00:39:31,630 --> 00:39:28,700
immunization debate and the daily as a

898
00:39:34,180 --> 00:39:31,640
newspaper tries to present points of

899
00:39:35,650 --> 00:39:34,190
view from both sides while I have

900
00:39:39,310 --> 00:39:35,660
received several complaints about the

901
00:39:42,340 --> 00:39:39,320
inclusion of ms O'Meara's views in the

902
00:39:44,830 --> 00:39:42,350
article i have received at least as many

903
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:44,840
complaints that it was biased towards

904
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:48,650
the pro immunization camp all the daily

905
00:39:53,020 --> 00:39:51,050
and the meteor in general can do is

906
00:39:55,660 --> 00:39:53,030
present both sides of the debate as

907
00:39:57,970 --> 00:39:55,670
impartially as possible when we are

908
00:40:00,940 --> 00:39:57,980
receiving complaints from both sides it

909
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:00,950
suggests to me that we are doing a

910
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:03,530
pretty good job of walking the fine line

911
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:06,970
down the middle as to ms O'Meara's quote

912
00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:09,410
qualifications end quote she is a

913
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:12,110
well-known Sunshine Coast nutritionist

914
00:40:17,470 --> 00:40:14,690
with a high profile in the area and a

915
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:17,480
strong point of view on immunization she

916
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:19,520
has never pretended to be any more than

917
00:40:29,530 --> 00:40:23,570
that regards Damien Battersby acting

918
00:40:34,490 --> 00:40:32,060
this is Ross bulge from the Brisbane

919
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,500
skeptics society in response to the

920
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,720
sunshine coast daily article in which a

921
00:40:40,490 --> 00:40:38,400
nutritionist who expressed some

922
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:40,500
anti-vaccine sentiments was featured I

923
00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:44,160
wrote an open letter dear mr. Damien

924
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:46,440
bothers be I wanted to discuss some

925
00:40:49,790 --> 00:40:48,060
concerns i had about an article that

926
00:40:52,190 --> 00:40:49,800
appeared in the sunshine coast daily on

927
00:40:55,220 --> 00:40:52,200
August thirteenth low vaccination rates

928
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:55,230
sparks new campaign first I would like

929
00:40:58,760 --> 00:40:57,090
to commend the sunshine coast daily for

930
00:41:00,890 --> 00:40:58,770
bringing attention to the important

931
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:00,900
issue of vaccination uptake as well as

932
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:02,880
the benefits of vaccination it is

933
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:04,350
crucial for the future health of our

934
00:41:08,350 --> 00:41:06,180
children and indeed ourselves that the

935
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:08,360
general population continue to vaccinate

936
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:11,280
that being said I have some significant

937
00:41:14,270 --> 00:41:12,690
concerns about the content of the

938
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:14,280
article that I feel need to be addressed

939
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:16,290
urgently and should be considered for

940
00:41:21,110 --> 00:41:19,530
future articles I'm sure by now that you

941
00:41:23,330 --> 00:41:21,120
are aware of the idea of false balance

942
00:41:25,220 --> 00:41:23,340
in the media the term refers to

943
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:25,230
instances in which the media attempts to

944
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:27,090
present two sides of a particular issue

945
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:29,490
in the name of fans and balance where in

946
00:41:34,220 --> 00:41:32,610
reality there is no controversy there is

947
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:34,230
one established position for which there

948
00:41:39,170 --> 00:41:36,510
is overwhelming scientific support and a

949
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,180
fringe denial element many issues

950
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:41,040
covered by the media are subjective and

951
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:43,650
fall on a grey line whether or not a new

952
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:45,330
large supermarket should be built in a

953
00:41:48,980 --> 00:41:47,250
quiet country town or whether people

954
00:41:50,690 --> 00:41:48,990
receiving government welfare should work

955
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:50,700
for their payments are issues for which

956
00:41:55,340 --> 00:41:52,800
there are obvious pros and cons and need

957
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:55,350
careful discussion topics in science

958
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:57,930
however are rarely so grey sciences are

959
00:42:01,910 --> 00:41:59,520
disciplined based on empirical evidence

960
00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:01,920
a self-correcting process that leads to

961
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:03,780
firm and definitive conclusions over

962
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:06,330
time these conclusions are reached by

963
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:08,250
the consensus of experts in any given

964
00:42:14,410 --> 00:42:10,710
field after careful evaluation of the

965
00:42:16,910 --> 00:42:14,420
evidence immunization is a mature field

966
00:42:19,550 --> 00:42:16,920
vaccines have been a mainstay of Public

967
00:42:21,410 --> 00:42:19,560
Health for over 100 years the safety of

968
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:21,420
vaccines is well established and it is

969
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:23,490
not controversial amongst those that are

970
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:25,530
scientifically literate not to mention

971
00:42:30,020 --> 00:42:27,410
immunologists virologists and

972
00:42:32,030 --> 00:42:30,030
microbiologists to say the vaccine

973
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:32,040
denial and vaccine danger proponents or

974
00:42:35,780 --> 00:42:33,570
a fringe minority is a huge

975
00:42:37,820 --> 00:42:35,790
understatement proponents of such

976
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:37,830
theories have no scientific evidence on

977
00:42:40,839 --> 00:42:40,110
their side in fact they are frequently

978
00:42:42,729 --> 00:42:40,849
found to dis

979
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:42,739
and sometimes lie about a variety of

980
00:42:48,519 --> 00:42:44,720
factors associated with vaccine efficacy

981
00:42:50,469 --> 00:42:48,529
and safety imagine then my dismay when I

982
00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:50,479
read the above-mentioned article to find

983
00:42:54,460 --> 00:42:52,940
the quote of Cindy O'Meara it is

984
00:42:56,259 --> 00:42:54,470
questionable whether nutritionists are

985
00:42:58,539 --> 00:42:56,269
adequately qualified in their own field

986
00:43:00,849 --> 00:42:58,549
compared to say a dietitian a regulated

987
00:43:03,819 --> 00:43:00,859
title let alone even remotely qualified

988
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:03,829
in the area of immunology as such the

989
00:43:08,349 --> 00:43:05,930
opinions of mizzou Meera have absolutely

990
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,359
no place in an article about vaccination

991
00:43:12,609 --> 00:43:10,640
she states people are beginning to

992
00:43:14,769 --> 00:43:12,619
question immunizations and the amount we

993
00:43:16,479 --> 00:43:14,779
are having it should be noted that the

994
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:16,489
only reason this statement is true is

995
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:18,650
because people such as herself spread

996
00:43:22,539 --> 00:43:20,960
misinformation about immunization not

997
00:43:24,759 --> 00:43:22,549
because of any legitimate concerns by

998
00:43:26,979 --> 00:43:24,769
experts in the field of immunology she

999
00:43:29,019 --> 00:43:26,989
continues maybe they are not as safe as

1000
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:29,029
we have been told and they are no longer

1001
00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:30,710
sure if they should sacrifice their

1002
00:43:35,710 --> 00:43:32,900
child for the greater good social media

1003
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:35,720
is telling us the truth now she has no

1004
00:43:40,059 --> 00:43:37,609
expertise in which to speculate about

1005
00:43:42,609 --> 00:43:40,069
the safety of vaccines further by

1006
00:43:44,529 --> 00:43:42,619
stating as we have been told is implying

1007
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:44,539
some kind of conspiracy that frankly

1008
00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:47,119
just doesn't exist the word sacrifice is

1009
00:43:51,039 --> 00:43:49,069
an emotionally loaded term that has

1010
00:43:53,049 --> 00:43:51,049
absolutely no relevance to what happens

1011
00:43:54,519 --> 00:43:53,059
during the vaccination program in which

1012
00:43:56,499 --> 00:43:54,529
less than one in a thousand children

1013
00:43:59,140 --> 00:43:56,509
suffer side effects and even less

1014
00:44:01,209 --> 00:43:59,150
serious adverse events to suggest that

1015
00:44:03,579 --> 00:44:01,219
social media is an appropriate source of

1016
00:44:04,799 --> 00:44:03,589
medical information is absurd given the

1017
00:44:08,289 --> 00:44:04,809
dangerous amount of misinformation

1018
00:44:10,329 --> 00:44:08,299
propagated by such means she continues a

1019
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:10,339
mother put up how a daughter went to get

1020
00:44:15,009 --> 00:44:12,410
her cervical cancer vaccine and three

1021
00:44:17,079 --> 00:44:15,019
hours later she is dead this statement

1022
00:44:18,729 --> 00:44:17,089
lacks detail but is likely a dangerous

1023
00:44:20,589 --> 00:44:18,739
distortion of an event in which a young

1024
00:44:22,420 --> 00:44:20,599
girl received the vaccine and was

1025
00:44:24,279 --> 00:44:22,430
subsequently in a car accident or

1026
00:44:25,319 --> 00:44:24,289
perhaps another incident in which the

1027
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:25,329
girl who received the vaccine

1028
00:44:30,430 --> 00:44:28,430
unfortunately died from a tumor both are

1029
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:30,440
completely unrelated to the vaccination

1030
00:44:34,329 --> 00:44:32,450
that this statement was even made in the

1031
00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:34,339
first place demonstrates the potential

1032
00:44:38,829 --> 00:44:37,190
dishonesty of ms O'Meara she continues

1033
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:38,839
that she said that she wasn't against

1034
00:44:42,910 --> 00:44:40,609
the philosophy behind vaccines but did

1035
00:44:45,279 --> 00:44:42,920
question do bees ingredients this

1036
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:45,289
statement is also irresponsible it is a

1037
00:44:49,390 --> 00:44:47,450
common tactic by vaccine denialists to

1038
00:44:50,979 --> 00:44:49,400
use the just asking questions gambit

1039
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:50,989
bringing up points that have been

1040
00:44:54,670 --> 00:44:53,450
refuted over and over again by qualified

1041
00:44:56,380 --> 00:44:54,680
immunol just

1042
00:44:57,940 --> 00:44:56,390
there are no ingredients in vaccines

1043
00:45:00,010 --> 00:44:57,950
that have been considered dubious in

1044
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:00,020
fact a great deal of research has been

1045
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:01,970
conducted into each and every ingredient

1046
00:45:06,820 --> 00:45:04,130
contained within a vaccine for both

1047
00:45:08,350 --> 00:45:06,830
safety and effect on efficacy being

1048
00:45:10,060 --> 00:45:08,360
vague and not listing a specific

1049
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:10,070
ingredient makes it hard for readers to

1050
00:45:14,650 --> 00:45:11,810
research specifically which ingredients

1051
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:14,660
are to be considered dubious this

1052
00:45:18,250 --> 00:45:16,490
article has raised serious questions in

1053
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:18,260
my mind as as to the process by which

1054
00:45:22,210 --> 00:45:20,570
journalists at your publication research

1055
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:22,220
their articles and the source is quoted

1056
00:45:26,350 --> 00:45:24,800
in them is any attempt made to check

1057
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:26,360
into whether sources are appropriately

1058
00:45:30,340 --> 00:45:28,130
qualified to give an opinion on the

1059
00:45:32,260 --> 00:45:30,350
topic in question other backgrounds of

1060
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:32,270
sources checked for potential bias and

1061
00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:34,730
motives that may come into play this

1062
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:35,990
isn't the first time in the past month

1063
00:45:39,310 --> 00:45:37,730
that the standards of science reporting

1064
00:45:41,590 --> 00:45:39,320
in your publication have been

1065
00:45:43,930 --> 00:45:41,600
substandard an article published on the

1066
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:43,940
first of August titled DNA computer to

1067
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:46,850
identify Ebola contained a table titled

1068
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:49,490
world's deadliest diseases unfortunately

1069
00:45:53,770 --> 00:45:51,170
the table contain two organisms that

1070
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:53,780
were not viruses although this oversight

1071
00:45:58,060 --> 00:45:55,730
may seem small as an interface between

1072
00:46:00,370 --> 00:45:58,070
science in the public publications such

1073
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:00,380
of yours have a duty to ensure accurate

1074
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:02,450
information is presented to help prevent

1075
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:05,060
the propagation of misinformation when

1076
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:06,800
this misinformation takes the form of

1077
00:46:11,890 --> 00:46:09,290
important public health initiatives a la

1078
00:46:14,170 --> 00:46:11,900
ms O'Meara's comments diligence is even

1079
00:46:16,810 --> 00:46:14,180
more important I look forward to your

1080
00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:16,820
response on this matter regards Ross

1081
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:18,590
mulch president Brisbane skeptics

1082
00:46:23,590 --> 00:46:21,410
society although I have yet to receive a

1083
00:46:25,780 --> 00:46:23,600
response to this letter the letter was

1084
00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:25,790
published as the letter of the day in

1085
00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:44,080
hey this is Jay novella from the

1086
00:46:47,620 --> 00:46:45,710
skeptics guide to the universe podcast

1087
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:47,630
did you know that there are thousands of

1088
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:49,490
skeptical reports interviews and

1089
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:51,200
investigations going back to nineteen

1090
00:46:57,790 --> 00:46:53,930
eighty one free to download just visit w

1091
00:46:59,470 --> 00:46:57,800
WC MPX com a you click the publications

1092
00:47:01,210 --> 00:46:59,480
link and enjoy almost every back issue

1093
00:47:03,010 --> 00:47:01,220
of the skeptic the journal from

1094
00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:03,020
Australian skeptics you can also

1095
00:47:06,849 --> 00:47:04,550
subscribe online and get the latest

1096
00:47:08,859 --> 00:47:06,859
digital or hard copy of this the world's

1097
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:08,869
second oldest skeptical magazine that's

1098
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:12,530
ww skeptics com au or just google

1099
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:30,580
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1100
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:31,970
zone i'm still here perched up in the

1101
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:34,490
control area there's a couple of cars

1102
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:36,290
still out there on the track doing some

1103
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:39,530
hot laps and things like that and it's a

1104
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:41,810
great day for the racing enthusiasts

1105
00:47:46,750 --> 00:47:44,410
race enthusiast who likes to drive cars

1106
00:47:49,410 --> 00:47:46,760
well what more could you want to get to

1107
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:49,420
drive a car around a racetrack and the

1108
00:47:54,940 --> 00:47:52,160
the howling wind becomes car six back

1109
00:47:57,700 --> 00:47:54,950
from the pits just coming into the pit

1110
00:47:59,020 --> 00:47:57,710
lane right now well I'm looking forward

1111
00:48:01,090 --> 00:47:59,030
in the coming weeks they're doing some

1112
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:01,100
mystery investigators programs shows

1113
00:48:05,620 --> 00:48:03,290
once again with my good friend Ian Bryce

1114
00:48:07,450 --> 00:48:05,630
from Australian skeptics and also

1115
00:48:09,250 --> 00:48:07,460
Maynard's going to be chipping in and

1116
00:48:11,890 --> 00:48:09,260
coming on and being one of the mystery

1117
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:11,900
investigators soon at the powerhouse

1118
00:48:15,610 --> 00:48:14,570
museum there's some shows lined up and

1119
00:48:17,740 --> 00:48:15,620
for those of you who don't know the

1120
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:17,750
mystery investigators is a young it's a

1121
00:48:22,270 --> 00:48:20,240
performance since we explain science

1122
00:48:24,340 --> 00:48:22,280
it's more or less David students but

1123
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:24,350
anybody can enjoy it we have a bed of

1124
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:25,970
nails and we explain how the power

1125
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:27,590
balance bracelets seemed to work we've

1126
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:29,570
been some spoons and talk about

1127
00:48:33,940 --> 00:48:31,040
firewalking all sorts of interesting and

1128
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:33,950
fun things looking forward to that but

1129
00:48:41,620 --> 00:48:38,480
for this week from the windswept colder

1130
00:48:43,570 --> 00:48:41,630
park raceway just outside of Melbourne

1131
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:43,580
in Victoria this is Richard Saunders

1132
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:50,330
signing off you've been listening to the

1133
00:48:58,840 --> 00:48:55,010
skeptic server visit our website at www